Internal Customer Service: Psychological Safety in Hospitality

Michelle: Welcome everyone to today’s podcast, and my goodness, we are going to have a wonderful conversation with this amazing lady who is in the UK.

Let me introduce you to Anna Sebastian. She is a leading hospitality consultant with over 15 years of experience in luxury members clubs and Forbes Five Star hotels, including The Savoy and The Langham. And I must say, The Langham is one of my favourite hotels, Anna. It’s just gorgeous.

Recognised for her leadership and innovation, Anna has overseen bar programs that have earned places on the World’s 50 Best Bar list and received multiple industry accolades, including Best Menu, International Team, and Bar Manager of the Year in 2022.

She founded Anna Sebastian Hospitality, better known as ASH, a consultancy specialising in food and beverage commercial and creative strategy. ASH delivers a comprehensive 360-degree approach that encompasses brand partnerships, market research, commercial tender agreements, menu development, PR and marketing, as well as advocacy, events, training, and crowd curation. I love that — curation, that’s gorgeous.

The agency combines creativity, innovation, and commercial insight to elevate bar and beverage programs across the global hospitality sector.

Alongside her consultancy work, Anna contributes to Class Magazine, founded Celebrate Her — which we’re going to talk about a little bit later — a platform championing women in the drinks industry, and serves as a judge for numerous international awards. She is also a member of the Business Advisory Committee for Tales of the Cocktail and presents the annual Class Bar Magazine Awards in the UK.

My goodness me, I know this conversation is going to be so interesting. Anna, thank you so much for joining me. But tell me, how did you get into the hospitality industry, and particularly the drinks space?

Anna: Of course, and thank you so much for the introduction, and thank you for having me on here today.

I think, like a lot of people in the UK, it was never really the plan to be in this industry. Hospitality, sadly, in the UK, isn’t really seen as a viable career. It’s not really something that people encourage you to do. So, like a lot of people, my trajectory was completely different, and I really fell into the industry.

But after about, I don’t know, probably six to eight months, I really realised, I was just like, this is where I’m meant to be. It was such a realisation that I’d kind of found my purpose in what I was doing — helping people and serving people. It was a really wonderful moment.

And I think being able to work somewhere like The Savoy — again, at the time I didn’t really realise the importance of working somewhere like that — but it really changed my trajectory, my career, and everything as well. So yeah, I was very lucky to work in places like that.

Michelle: And it’s interesting, Anna, because you’re right. When you’re in the thick of things, particularly when it’s your first job, or that first time into an industry, you don’t realise the actual opportunities that are there for you.

So I think that’s another thing I’d love to talk about during our chat today — the opportunities that there are for us women in the industry.

So let’s talk about Celebrate Her first off, because I’m really interested in hearing a little bit more about that. You’ve got here that you actually started that up as a casual conversation at the end of a shift, and today it’s now a global movement across 22 countries.

As you look towards early 2026, what are you most proud of, and what does this moment mean for the future of women in hospitality?

Anna: It was really off the back of a shift at The Langham, and we sort of went, where are the women? How can we get more visibility for women?

That really changed the trajectory of management and leadership as well. We really dedicated a lot of time and thought to making sure that we had a diverse and balanced team at The Langham. We were really lucky — we had an amazing head of Langham Hotels, and when we approached him about this idea, he was just like, “Well, you know what I want, but how you get there and make it happen…” And I was like, “Okay, cool.”

So we really went about looking at hiring policies. We actually ended up having a 50/50 split of men and women in the team. We changed the way uniforms were handled. Especially in five-star hotels, it was very much that women had to wear dresses and heels, and we really changed that. We were one of the first places — and this wasn’t that long ago — that actually gave women the opportunity to choose. We were like, well, if you want to wear a dress, you can wear a dress. If you want to wear trousers and a shirt and a waistcoat, you can wear that.

We really looked at that, so we had a 50/50 split team, women behind the bar and on the floor, and that was amazing.

But yeah, very much off the back of a shift, we sat around one night and went, how do we give more visibility? And we were like, well, why don’t we just do an event? Why don’t we call all the incredible female bartenders that we know around the world and get them behind the bar for one night and showcase it?

And we did this incredible event. The support that we got from brands, from all the men that we knew, from everybody — it really was the start of something. It was the start of a little bit of a movement. Then we just went on, and we continue to do good things. That really is, I guess, at the heart of what we do. We just want to do good things.

We worked with World’s 50 Best. We launched their diversity program in March 2020, obviously right before Covid, on March the 8th. Then in lockdown we had time to think — what do we want to do with this? How do we take this further?

I think it goes back to, with anything, sometimes it’s just starting and doing. It’s just taking that leap of faith.

Michelle: And I like what you’re saying. It’s mentoring, but it’s not that forced mentoring. It’s the conversations, it’s the connections.

Anna: Yeah, exactly. It doesn’t have to be this formal one-to-one thing. Sometimes it is just, “Hey, do you have a moment? Can I run something by you? Can I just check in?”

I really based a lot of my career on connections and meeting people. I think sometimes it is just that — building your network and your personal positioning as well.

Michelle: And it is that connection, and us ladies do that so well — just having that chat in the hallway, over a cup of tea, at the end of a shift, whatever it might be. Having that informal setting can really change your whole mindset about things instead of just sitting there going, well, we’ve got 30 minutes and we’re going to talk about a particular topic.

So yeah, I love that idea. We can just bring that little bit of inspiration into that moment.

Recently, in 2025, there was the global evaluation of the drinks hospitality industry. It was a significant undertaking. What were some of those most surprising, or perhaps confirming, findings for you personally, Anna?

Anna: Yes, I think that survey — the reason behind why we wanted to do it was to give validation and data and statistics to our experiences. Because I was, in a way, just sick of being on another panel and another panel and then being like, “Well, what’s the action?” Why are we having this conversation?

A lot of it is tick boxes. And don’t get me wrong, tick boxes for me have been brilliant. It’s got visibility and this and that. But I was very much, well, where is this going? What is this doing?

So we did the survey. We actually partnered with CGA, which is a leading data company, and Allara Global, which is this incredible training platform that’s actually based in Sydney as well. We all kind of came together and said, well, we need this data.

Anyway, we did the survey, and I think a lot of it — I was expecting a lot of it to be focused on equality and diversity and inclusion. But actually, what really came out of it, the top three things that mattered to people were: one was pay, obviously being paid.

In different regions, things work differently. In Australia and New York it’s very different, for example, to how things work in London. It’s seen as a proper industry, and bartenders can be earning, I don’t know, $200,000, whereas in London that’s not going to happen.

So that was one big thing.

The second most important thing was mental health. So that was huge. It was people’s happiness and wellbeing — but not wellbeing in the sense of “I’m drinking less” or any of these buzzwords. It was more like, how do I make the day-to-day work?

And then the third thing was really about training, but not as in “how do I make a drink?” It was more like, how do I deal with these situations? How do I deal with it if this happens?

That was really, really interesting. And actually from that, we were able to take all of that information and turn our shared experiences into something tangible that we could then change and improve on in the industry.

Michelle: Yeah, and it just takes those conversations once again — those conversations to have a discussion and then share those ideas.

Training and development, you’ve talked about, came through loud and clear as one of those essentials for retention. And we know, both here in Australia and as I’m sure it is globally, it’s attracting staff members, but it’s actually retaining them.

How do we go about that, especially for professionals with that four to ten years’ experience? What steps do you believe leaders in the hospitality industry should be taking now to turn this insight into sustainable action in 2026? Because it’s key — how do we keep these people?

Anna: For sure. And I think the hospitality industry really needs to focus on not just the days, but also the decades. What is happening in the next however long?

This is really key — how are we going to keep people within the industry? So when we’re attracting people, what are the next steps?

I think it’s really important to look at the longevity of people as well, and that is going to come down to things like pay, training, mental health, mental wellbeing, and really making sure that people are set up to do the job and have the resources as well — not just sitting on a panel and not just doing all the tick boxes.

Michelle: Do you think flexibility is so important now, more than it has ever been? Not just for Gen Zs, but across all generations, because of the different commitments they have.

Not everybody wants to work every single weekend or every public holiday. Money is important, yes, we all need to be paid, but for many of them, that wellbeing aspect, that mental health, or just time by themselves or with family and friends — do you think that’s a key point, having that flexibility now?

Anna: I do. I would also say that this is the nature of the industry. We work in an industry that requires you to work weekends, to work late. I don’t think we can get away with that — that is hospitality.

What I will say is, if you are entering the industry, you have to be prepared for that. And when we talk about flexibility, sure, flexibility is nice, but is that a reality?

I think a lot of it is on the person joining. If you are joining, you need to be committed. I worked nearly 15 years in the hospitality industry, and I worked nights pretty much every single night, and I worked weekends. That’s what I did, and I can’t complain about it because I chose to do that.

So I think you do have to do that. What we can do is try and make that a little bit more enjoyable, and we can make it more fun and we can make it safer.

So, are you able to get your team home at night in an Uber? Can that be part of your business plan? Flexibility is great, but every industry that is a bit of a service — whether you’re in the military, whether you’re working in a hair salon, whether you’re in hospitality — it requires late nights and it requires weekends and all of this.

So if you’re choosing to be in this industry, that is what you have to do.

Michelle: It’s funny though, and I’m sure you’ve come across it, where you’ve hired somebody and they’ve gone through, “You understand you have to work weekends,” and they’ll work a couple of weeks and then they’ll go, “Oh, I didn’t realise it was going to be every weekend,” and then they start just checking out.

It’s so disappointing because you’re right, this is what the industry is about. It’s 24 hours a day, seven days a week, every day of the year. And you can have fun and enjoy it, but it’s understanding, well, this is what it is. You have to be there for the people, and you cannot do this from your home. You have to be there at the bar.

Anna: Yeah, 100%. You need to be there. It is about showing up. It is life.

If you don’t want this life, choose something else. I’m not going to sugar coat it. I’m going to be really real and really honest. Change it. Don’t work here. Do something else. Find something else. Work in a bank or somewhere quiet, or being able to sit all the time.

Michelle: Mental health and wellbeing remain urgent concerns globally, and I know that was one of those things that certainly came out from that survey.

How can operators move from awareness to true accountability? Because we talk about it a lot. I feel that in the last few years, it’s gone more than just talking — you’ve got people actually putting actions in place and having those conversations on the floor.

What kinds of wellbeing infrastructure have you seen actually work in hospitality settings, Anna? Because I think we can have all these ideals, but what actually works when it comes down to the frontline?

Anna: I think it’s really about looking at what people value. When you understand what people value, then you can have impact.

I think things like making safety and wellbeing part of your business plan — that has to be just as you would have budget for stock and OS&E and your opening costs. This should be part of your opening costs.

Your consideration of how people are going to get home at night — especially women, especially in a city like London where it’s not particularly safe for women to go home on their own — that has to be a consideration. It has to be part of an opening cost.

So I would say those sorts of things.

I don’t particularly see one standout place doing great things. Unfortunately, this is going to fall on your bigger hospitality groups and hotel chains, where they actually do make a difference. The impact of their actions will not just inspire, but from a practical side of things, help other people.

So there’s a lot of work to do, for sure.

Michelle: Yes, yeah. I don’t think it’s ever going to stop. I think we’ll always continue that journey as things change.

Workplace safety and equity were also highlighted, particularly the shocking statistic that 70% of reported incidents are never resolved, and that’s a really high stat.

What are some practical, immediate changes you believe operators can implement to make their venues safer and more inclusive for women, as well as all team members?

Anna: Yeah, I think it’s really about having that process and that critical path.

I always say to people, plan for things going wrong, because we all know how to deal with things when they go right. It’s a nice celebration and everything. But what happens when something goes wrong? Is there a process? Is there a critical path that people follow to report something?

Because you’re taught how to make a drink. You’re taught how to seat guests. You’re taught about all these great standards. But are you taught what happens when a guest does something, or a supplier does something? How do you report something? What are the local laws? What are the differences between sexual harassment and sexual assault?

I guarantee you ask any bartender, or anybody really working in the industry, everybody would be like, “Oh, well, it’s kind of this…” And I’m like, okay, but is that the legal definition, or is that what you think?

Let’s really go back to the basics.

So I think it’s very much that you’ve got to have those conversations, and you’ve got to have things in place that are consistent, where people will know that if they do report something, it will be resolved.

Michelle: So then who do you think is responsible for that? It may start in an organisation, it could perhaps be in the employee handbook, the people and culture manager may have said it during the interview, but who actually drives that health and wellbeing within the workplace?

Anna: It falls on the business.

So if you are the owner of the business, if you’re running it, it’s your responsibility.

I think people don’t like responsibility these days. Nobody really wants to take it. I’m just like, someone has to take responsibility. Somebody has to.

And to be honest, I don’t think it really matters who that is, but somebody has to. It’s not fun. It’s not a nice job taking responsibility, but somebody has to.

That’s what we did with Celebrate Her. That’s what I do in my business. We all have the ability to have a choice. It’s so rare that we’re sitting here in a developed country with choice, and we have a choice about how we wake up every day, how we act, how we talk to people, how we run a business, and how we do things.

Everybody knows deep down when it’s right and when it isn’t right. Some people ignore it and some people don’t. But you have to take responsibility.

Michelle: I think that’s key. It’s the business owner, yes, or the senior manager, but it comes down to that shift manager who’s on duty that night. The frontline team members at the bar or in the dining area need to know they’ve got support from that person, because a lot of them don’t know how to handle that themselves, do they?

It can be quite overwhelming, because for many in the industry it could be their first job. So they need to know they’ve got that support from the people around them, not just from the owner.

Anna: It’s 100%.

I’ve put my cards on the table, and I’ve walked away from places before. I’ve said to the owners of the business, “Well, you have a choice. It’s either if you do this, then I walk.” And these are global hotel companies and individual businesses.

Again, we have a choice. Everyone’s like, “Well, I don’t want to lose my job.” Okay, but there’s going to be another job.

I’ve never experienced a moment where I’ve gone, “Well, what about my job? What about this?” Because there’s always going to be another one.

And I think you have to. This goes back to what is your purpose, and what I always say is your guiding star. Your guiding star is going to take you through every single job, every single relationship, every single business partner, whatever. If you stay true to that — and sure, that will change over the years as you grow up and develop and everything — but that’s going to be what navigates you through all of these difficult situations.

Michelle: Yeah, very much so. It’s those values.

I think a lot of people perhaps sell out those values, or they don’t look at the choices. They feel that everybody else is controlling them. And you’re right, Anna, we all have a choice.

We can’t control how people react, but it’s how we control ourselves and staying true to our values.

Because once we… I suppose for you and I, we’ve got well-established businesses, and some people listening might think, “Oh well, it’s very easy for you to say that, but I’ve got to get food on the table.”

But I know when I’ve been in situations — and it sounds like you’ve been in the same, Anna — that you’ve chosen not to work in particular organisations, or I’ve chosen not to work with particular people who wanted to work with me, clients and situations, because it’s just been against my values, or I just don’t feel that intuition in the tummy, so to speak, that this is not the right way for me.

And you’re right, another job comes up or another client turns up, because when you shut that door on that person, another one opens, and you’re allowing that to happen because you’re making that choice, aren’t you?

Anna: Yeah, 100%.

And I think, to your point about, “Yeah, but I still have to get food on the table. I still have to pay people. My business could be over tomorrow.” We’re the same.

What I will say is, having principles and staying true to that can be expensive. We’ve walked away from clients before and trusted our instinct and our gut, and sure, it’s cost us hundreds of thousands of pounds. That’s frustrating when you want to grow a business and you want to hire somebody else and you can’t because of XYZ happened and so on and so forth.

But again, it’s down to choice. What do you want to do? Do you want to be a good person or you don’t?

I think we overcomplicate it. Actually, again, come back to what your purpose is.

As my father used to say, you can lie straight in bed. You can go to bed and know that the choices that you’ve made are your choices, and therefore your values, whatever it might be. It’s a very old-fashioned saying, but it’s very true.

It’s the choices that you make.

Michelle: You mentioned Celebrate Her, and I know that is a very big organisation, but there’s been an offshoot from that now called Celebrate Mothers, which I’d love to hear a little bit more about.

That’s the first network of its kind for mothers in the drink industry. Because it’s true, women do continue working on. What inspired its creation, and what do you hope it will change for women navigating both motherhood and a hospitality career? Because there may be some that just go, well, how can they actually work together? And my idea is, well, why can’t they?

Anna: Yeah, I think, look, I’m not a mother, and maybe I will be, maybe I won’t be at some point.

But it was really off the back of the feedback that we got from people within the community. It was about bringing people together, bringing people with shared experiences together, and really looking at whether this is something that we can change.

I still don’t know. I think it’s hard to be a mother, and I think it’s hard to have a career. Can both work at the same time? Yes, maybe. But there will be sacrifice. I think it’s naïve for people to think that there won’t be sacrifice on both parts.

But there will be, and it’s just trying to find the best possible solution. Maybe through that community, can we find people that have like-minded experiences and shared experiences.

Michelle: Yeah, and I think a lot of that time, it’s just sharing the thoughts or concerns that we may have.

I know when I started my company 32 years ago, I had two very small children and I had no choice. I found myself by myself, and I had these two little babies, and I had to start a business. I had to start bringing in money. It was that choice that I made.

So we have to think that things change over time, don’t they, with people? Understanding that people are looking for a different purpose. And I think you’re right — what is that purpose? Does that purpose change over time as well? What do you think?

Anna: Yeah, I think purpose does change. I think that’s okay.

One of my best friends, she’s a single mother of two, and going back almost 10 or 12 years now, very similar — she had no choice. It’s not fair, of course it isn’t fair, but again, we’ve got to keep moving, we’ve got to keep going, and we can’t just talk about it. We’ve got to have action.

I think through her changes and what she did, she was able to pave the path. And how we work as a business now, we work very much — and it wasn’t really an active decision — we just started really working like what I’m going to call micro shifts.

Sure, we’re not an operational business, but the thing that stands us apart is that we are available 24/7. You will get a reply within 12 hours of working with us, and that’s where we stand out.

But what it has done is given people the ability to work wherever they want in the world, to have a life, to do whatever they want, whether it’s have kids or not have kids, or just be single and live the best life — which also matters.

We talk about mothers in the industry, but we should also talk about single people in the industry and what they need to live their lives, because that also is important.

I was always the last one, for example, that got holiday approved or Christmas off, and it was always like, “Well, I have kids.” And I’m like, okay, cool, well what about me?

So whilst I support everybody, that support also needs to be there for people that may be single, that may want to find a partner, that may want to have kids. Well, what about the time for them to go and do that?

Michelle: Yes, and even just for the time — they may have ageing parents, or they deserve time off, they deserve holidays.

I know I’ve got three much older brothers, and my middle brother was like that. He isn’t married, he doesn’t have children, and in the business that he was in, he would work every weekend because they said, “Well, you’re not married, you don’t have children.” And you’re thinking, yeah, but I still have a life.

And I think that’s the thing. You’ve got to speak up and say, well, I deserve this time off just as much as everybody else does, and making sure they’re aware of what your choices are.

You choose to work with a company that aligns with your values, but also understands what you’re seeking.

From roundtables and global seminars to local events and safe space conversations, Celebrate Her has created meaningful ways to connect women around the world.

What role do these gatherings play in driving real industry transformation? And I’d love you to share, Anna, how do the listeners — they’re all from around the world that listen to my podcast — how do they actually find out, and how could they perhaps even join Celebrate Her if it was something they’d be interested in?

Anna: Yeah, I think the meetups really are what grounds the community.

We do them all over the world. We self-fund a lot of this as well, so we never charge people to attend. What we really want is that community element to shine through in real life. And I think real-life connections, those conversations that we have, are so key.

I’m really putting emphasis on that sort of in-real-life participation. We work with a lot of brands to bring it to life. We either self-fund it, or we do them at key bar shows or key events happening around the world.

Obviously International Women’s Day around March is a very, very busy time. A lot of people want to talk about it. But we really put a lot of effort into what that looks like. We’ve moved from doing a lot of panel discussions in the past to then just really sitting around the table and being next to somebody that you might not necessarily have met before, and having these conversations.

And I think the powerful thing is that we all have something to give. No matter what level of your career you are at, everybody has something to give.

From joining the community, anyone can join. It’s for all women in the hospitality industry — that’s really the only requirement. Anyone can really join. It’s an incredible community.

And I always say to everybody, it’s everybody’s community, it’s not mine. I happen to be the facilitator, and that’s really it.

Michelle: Beautiful. Well look, I’ll certainly be putting links in the show notes so people can certainly learn more about Celebrate Her and even Celebrate Mothers, so thank you for that.

As we come to an end, my final question is: as we set our sights here — it feels like we’re already halfway through the year, but we’re just starting in 2026, and time just seems to be moving so fast, Anna — what is your message to hospitality leaders and to women in the industry about what’s possible when we centre community, courage, and care in how we lead?

Anna: I think the big message is that we can all make a difference, no matter who we are. And I think that’s really important to know.

We all have a choice to make a decision, and sometimes I think it is just about making a decision.

Nobody’s ready. The biggest myth is that everyone knows what they’re doing, and it’s like nobody knows what they’re doing. So I just think it’s better to do it, take that chance, and take that opportunity, because I think we can all make a difference.

Michelle: Yes, yeah, we certainly can.

Look, thank you so much, Anna. I really appreciated this conversation. I’m sure my listeners would agree.

Is there something that I haven’t asked you that you would like to add before we finish off?

Anna: No, honestly, you’ve been a wonderful host, so thank you so much.

I just really think it’s going back to that point about taking that opportunity. We all have a choice, and we can all make a difference.

Michelle: We certainly can, and we make a difference by supporting each other, and that’s what we need to do as women, both in our local community as well as globally.

So thank you so much for joining me.

Anna: Of course. Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it a lot.