TRANSCRIPT: Can AI Replace the Human Touch in Hospitality?
The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast
Guest: Brian Vujnovic, CEO and Co-Founder, MIA Hospitality Management
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MICHELLE: Welcome everyone to today's podcast. I'm really looking forward to having this conversation with this gentleman today, joining us from sunny Florida, as we talk about everything that we both passionately love in the hospitality industry.
Brian Vujnovic, CEO and Co-Founder of MIA Hospitality Management, brings 25+ years of hotel operations, development, and asset management expertise. He previously led asset management at Robert Finvarb Companies, overseeing 10 new hotel developments and portfolio CAPEX. Brian played a key role in launching Rosa Sky in Miami and Charlie Park in Tallahassee, both award-winning rooftop venues. And we know here in Australia, like Florida, when we have those beautiful summer days there's nothing better than a rooftop venue. Earlier he held leadership roles with Ian Schrager Hotels and SBE, shaping his lifestyle and luxury expertise. Today he leads Mia Hospitality Management, a Marriott and Hyatt approved platform driving operational excellence and portfolio growth.
Welcome Brian, and thank you very much for joining me.
BRIAN: Thank you so much for having me, Michelle. I'm excited to be here. This is going to be a really interesting conversation because we're going to be talking about AI, but also the customer connection. Although AI is taking over the world, we are never going to remove that beautiful human connection that we both enjoy. That's why we're in this industry. Hospitality is all about the people, and that feeling of belonging, and that moment of connecting with each other.
MICHELLE: So Brian, with your background across hotel operations, development, and asset management, how are you seeing AI influence the guest experience in hospitality right now, and where do you think it is adding the most value?
BRIAN: That's a great question. I think there's a great deal of attention and media focus on AI globally. It's been the narrative dominating headlines for the last couple of years, and the hospitality industry is still trying to find its footing. The industries leading in this space right now are finance and health. Hospitality is in the background trying to play catch up.
Where AI is most prevalent right now in the hospitality space is really in the marketing space, where different platforms are acting as a new way for customers to find hotels and destinations, and understand how AI can help them find the right experience when they travel. We actually just signed a partnership with a group called Lighthouse where we're partnering with them to help position every hotel in our portfolio from a search perspective. They're going to help us optimise our visibility across multiple AI platforms so we can start gaining more traction on the customer acquisition front.
The multiple platforms that are live right now are really trying to take share from Google and other search engines. We're just at the beginning of entering into the search space where we can focus on acquiring our customer, whether it's direct or through online travel agency platforms.
The brands themselves really haven't launched any proprietary tools or partnerships with any of the AI platforms. I'm sure that's in the works. When they announce those partnerships, that's really going to change the landscape. But there are other firms out there providing this service, so we're excited to partner up and start venturing out on our own.
Operationally, AI is really just starting to penetrate operations, facilitating administrative needs on property, really in sales, accounting, and front desk departments. AI agents and bots can start handling phone calls, texts, emails, and pre-arrival letters to guests. This provides functionality where the front desk team can have less administrative duties and focus on the customer in front of them. On the back of house side, accounting and administrative functions are similar, helping facilitate journal entries, scanning invoices, and answering phone calls, emails, and texts on the sales front.
Those are really the two fronts right now. We're still far away from robots coming into play in culinary or front of house or back of house positions. That's still many years away from entering our space.
MICHELLE: You've covered some absolutely key points across the whole space of hospitality. The one I'd like to focus on is that back of house and even front of house at the desk — the time that it's going to free up for that amazing person doing the greeting at the front counter.
Because you check into a hotel, they've got all the information, and you seem to be there for an exorbitant amount of time. It feels like hours, but it's probably only about eight and a half minutes. They're literally just looking at the computer, and then when they do look at you it's more of a "here's your card" and off you go, shuffled off because there are another 20 people behind you.
That's certainly going to assist with giving them the opportunity to really connect with the person. And when it's done beautifully, you walk away from that desk fully informed, still with the piece of paper so you can remember how to find the bar, the pool, and the gym. Not that I go there. But it also just gives you the opportunity to go, wow, that was my first impression. And we always know that first impression is so key.
The same with answering the telephone, the website inquiry forms. And you mentioned AI in search. I was saying to your associate Lizzie, just the other week I was up in Cairns and we had 400 global speakers gathered together, and we were all talking about how people were now finding us. The same as hotels. People are going to all those various AI platforms and saying, I'm looking for a speaker, or I'm looking for a hotel that's dog-friendly and kid-friendly. Instead of going to the old apps. It's very interesting to see people using this as a tool to have a conversation about where they're going to go for their holiday. Because when they put so much information in about themselves, it's already starting to suggest the best holiday place.
So how do you see AI shaping that future customer journey without losing the human connection that hospitality is built on? Because I've been to a few hotels in regional areas here in Australia where you walk in and you're actually booking in yourself. That's great if you're in a hurry, but it takes away that opportunity to have the conversation, to upsell about the restaurant.
BRIAN: Without losing the human — it's a great question. The human touch and the human experience is never going to leave this industry. We're an experience industry at the end of the day. People travel today more for experience than anything else. They want to partake in something that's memorable and enjoyable, and that cannot happen without the human component, the human touch, and that interaction.
The ultimate goal and where this is going to end up is that AI is going to be able to automate and create efficiencies so that administrative tasks are removed from customer-facing employees. The automated work — emails, texts, phone calls — will be handled efficiently so that the guest is going to have a choice. If they want the human touch, that human touch is going to be there. Hotels and brands are going to provide that, and it's going to be a requirement for the foreseeable future.
Where the automation comes in is going to be for that customer who just wants a quick text to say, drop a towel to my room, or book me at the restaurant at this time. It's going to enable guests to really spend more time doing what they want to do and having a more positive and memorable experience. I look at this as a tool that's going to help us deliver more memorable and positive experiences, where the interactions that should be seamless will be seamless, and then the interactions where they want the human component will be there too.
One of the other nuances we're learning is that as the demographics of our customers shift and the younger customer experiences travel, the younger customer wants a more seamless experience. They may not be as desirous as previous generations to have that human touch. But it's going to be a balance at the end of the day, and the human touch is going to stay in play for the foreseeable future.
MICHELLE: Definitely. And I was just about to raise that point about the various generations. We have six generations in the workforce here, and globally it's seven. Particularly Gen Z — it is all about that seamless experience. If they can just text and not have to have that conversation with somebody, it makes it so much easier for them. And then of course the Alphas — it's just second nature for them to pick up a device and text. And it also avoids a lot of the mistakes or misunderstandings, particularly where there are language barriers. It's there in written form, it's quick, it's seamless, and that's what people are looking for.
Like this hotel last week — waiting a good minute before somebody would answer the phone, then having to repeat myself a number of times. Whereas when it's that seamless experience, you put in the order and you're also getting a text back about how it's looking. We've seen this with a number of third-party food delivery companies — the little app with the bike or the car moving across the screen, showing the food is on the road. People love to see the journey. That customer journey, even when they're not in the driver's seat, makes it something special.
BRIAN: I agree. What's interesting is I have two children, ages 13 and 11, and their generation communicates entirely in abbreviated acronyms. It's almost as if it's their own language. I wonder, ten or fifteen years from now, are we going to be automating AI to understand all these abbreviations to make it even more seamless?
I think the journey is going to be continual. I don't think we're going to hit a wall or a plateau. The automation is going to pick up momentum over time. But each time it gains another step forward in finding an efficiency and making something more seamless for a customer, I think that just opens another door where we can dedicate more human capital to the experience — to make it even more pleasurable and memorable when that human interaction does take place.
MICHELLE: Yes, and you're right. That first point is having that seamless experience, but they still want to meet somebody. They still want that feeling of, I've made the right decision. I've come to this particular hotel, this restaurant, this bar. And it's that connection where they can talk, or see a show in the theatrics of the cocktail bar. Like the rooftop venue you were talking about — it's not just about having booked. They've seen all the beautiful visuals on social media and made the booking, but it still comes down to sitting down, looking at that view, and having the team member connect with them. That's what makes it interesting.
And you're right, I don't think it's even going to be 10 or 15 years, Brian. It is moving so fast. Our Alphas — the oldest are already 16, so they're already starting to enter the workplace. I think we're all going to have to learn what their abbreviations actually mean!
BRIAN: I'm learning every day. I look at what my kids are typing and I wonder where it's all heading!
MICHELLE: I know! I'm still with the "six-seven" with my grandson, and I'm getting told that's old hat now. But it did help me the other day — on The Chase they came up with a question about a word, and I said, it's Sigma, I know it's Sigma. I got it right and I thought, yes, I am a very cool grandmother! But I'm sure that's also old hat now.
Look, you've led across very different stages of the business, from development through to operations. The hospitality industry has always been quite transient in many ways. Here in Australia, just like in America, we have a lot of backpackers, people in a second job, students at university. So it's not just about getting people and retaining them, but it's also leading them. How has leadership evolved over the past decade, particularly in balancing performance, people, and guest expectations?
BRIAN: Leadership over the past decade has gotten more challenging. It's a circumstance of the world we live in, in a post-Covid era where everything has changed. The industry is dealing globally with nominal RevPAR growth, rising costs operationally and non-operationally, where owners are feeling the pinch in terms of not seeing bottom lines grow. That applies pressure internally to the management team — the folks getting it done on site. As a result, management has to find more efficiencies, has to do more with less, in order to help owners get to their financial goals while balancing what the brands are requiring from a guest expectation standpoint, and then trying to go above and beyond on those guest expectations.
These pressures weren't as prevalent before Covid. And with the change of generations, where the younger generation is coming into the industry and the older generation is retiring, we're balancing how to provide more support and more training to younger team members who are a little more sensitive socially than the previous generation because of how technology has evolved.
What does that mean? It means leaders have to be more patient and understanding of associates' needs. They need to dedicate more time to training and ensuring team members have the right tools and resources to be successful, with the goal of retaining them and offering opportunities to grow.
Whereas in my generation, we were taught from day one: be patient, wait your turn, go above and beyond to be recognised for promotion. Today, there's more time dedicated to hiring, training, and retraining. The amount of resources available to help associates with training is far more significant than it was 10 or 15 years ago.
Senior leaders have to be more patient and accomplish more, because expectations from a service perspective have risen significantly as prices and costs have risen. What someone spends on a vacation today is substantially more than 10 or 15 years ago. All of that creates compression on senior leadership to deliver.
I think AI is going to help be a pressure valve to release some of this burden on senior managers. But it's gotten harder. And I think it's that situation where pressure creates diamonds. The end result is that we're going to end up with some pretty exceptional leaders who are going to innovate and take this industry to the next level. When you have circumstances that are more challenging than your previous generation, it tends to breed future leaders capable of delivering more.
MICHELLE: It is going to be an exciting time ahead — the next 10, 20+ years in this hospitality industry. And you're right — in the previous generations, you always felt like you had to wait your turn. You literally had to wait till somebody retired to get that promotion! Whereas now, the biggest pushback I get from all my clients is, they've only been here seven weeks and they literally want the CEO's job.
But you've got to see them for their knowledge and their capabilities. I always say to the leaders I work with, look not just at the leaders you've got now, but those with potential. Because if you ignore them, they'll go very quickly to someone else who can see that potential. As a leader, the skill is in seeing that potential, igniting it in somebody, and then you've got a team member who will move up very quickly and believe in the vision and values of your business.
Do you see that as key to retaining the staff you have now — showing them that opportunities are coming a lot sooner than in previous generations?
BRIAN: Yes. This generation's patience to wait for an opportunity is very low. They're very desirous to grow, to earn, and to do more. The way we're able to retain them and provide those opportunities is through more engagement — having frequent conversations, being honest, asking them what are your goals six months from now, a year from now, a couple of years from now, and working together on a plan that helps them get to where they want to end up.
Having that consistent engagement on both sides so the associate understands where they're at, gets clear feedback on what's working well, what they need to focus on, and what opportunities they have to sharpen their skill set to get to that next step. More engagement, clear and concise feedback, and being transparent are really the fundamentals we try to practice to deliver on the expectations of our associates who are looking to grow and do more with their careers.
MICHELLE: It's a very interesting space we've found ourselves in in hospitality, where those coming in aren't staying for very long unless they are noticed. It doesn't have to be the big picture — just being seen and being heard. It's going to be a challenge for Baby Boomers in senior management who've come up in a very different generation, as well as Gen X and Gen Y. Since Covid, hospitality is not seen as as glamorous as it was once thought. Just trying to get people in the door is one thing, but keeping them is something altogether different.
Let me ask you this, Brian — I know it's a bit off the cuff. We find here in Australia that what's been working with the clients I work with is the connection, particularly with Gen Z's, outside of the workplace. I always say in a tongue-in-cheek way that two Gen Z's won't walk in the door together unless they're holding hands — and I say that in a loving way. We find that if they can be doing something with the venue in a community capacity, whether it's raising funds for a national or global organisation, or something to do with the local community — cleaning up a beach, giving blood, mowing the lawns of elderly people around Christmas — that translates back into the workplace. Because all of a sudden, you were there on the weekend with that group. It's a bit of a slow burn — you usually get two or three to start — but then it grows. Do you have anything similar happening in the US?
BRIAN: Absolutely. The culture here for off-site gatherings and celebrations has been really strong since I was up and coming in the industry, and I find that's only grown and evolved more. We see it with our own team members organising it themselves. There's value in that connection, in being able to understand who the person is outside of the workspace and understand them on a human and personal level. It ends up facilitating a general understanding of who we are as individuals, so that when we're dealing with challenging moments in the workplace, everybody can understand the other person's position more easily and come to an agreement on how to solve a problem together.
We're big believers of that, and one of our focuses in the future is how do we continue to evolve that so it's engaging not only for our associates but also tied into giving back to the community — making it a win for everybody. The focus now is on how we tie it into the community and giving back.
MICHELLE: Yes, and that's really key for that Gen Z — giving back to the community. But there'll always be the group who say, I don't want to get involved, but I'm happy to give a donation. So it's allowing each and every team member to show how they want to be involved. And we're definitely seeing massive improvements in team retention because of it. It's not just a peer — it's somebody they know a little bit more about, so they're wanting to come to work.
It hasn't fixed all Saturday nights where someone doesn't want to come in, but there is that little bit more loyalty now. That thought of, if I don't come in, if I stay home and wash my hair instead of coming in for that shift, I'm actually letting down the team. That great group I went out with last Sunday, that I cleaned up the beach with. It's a real piece that's growing, and it's really beautiful to see. Because once again, it's connecting with humans. It's all about the connection, building a bond.
So at MIA Hospitality Management there's a strong emphasis on operational excellence and building a high performance culture. We hear culture as a word that used to be bandied around — it was something we had to have on our vision board. But we now know it's so much more than that. It's really wonderful to see organisations actually living and breathing their culture, from the top down and the bottom up. What qualities are you most looking for in emerging hospitality leaders who will guide the industry into the future?
BRIAN: We look for passion. We look for individuals who strive to achieve maximum results and who can demonstrate that they don't just settle. One of the challenges our industry has been dealing with for many years is a sense of complacency — where it's okay to just settle for status quo, or to accept that a guest left with just an average experience because they didn't complain.
We've done a great job of breaking through that barrier and finding individuals who don't want to settle, who want more for themselves, something more rewarding, and who are willing to put in the extra effort. We can train on systems, we can train on standards, we can train on processes. You can't train somebody on ambition. It's really hard to install ambition in somebody. As a father, instilling ambition is a life's work. It never ends. It's hard to accomplish that with somebody over a one, two, or three year time frame.
So we look for ambition. We look for individuals who want to push above and beyond. If we can continue to hire and recruit ambitious, passionate team members into our organisation, it just becomes a domino effect — almost an avalanche — where you have a team looking to go above and beyond for the guests, for the brand, for each other cohesively. That will end up delivering superior guest experiences and superior results for owners and investors in hotels.
We can evaluate experience and education. To an extent you can gauge someone's capacity to handle certain responsibilities. But you can't replace ambition and passion. At the end of the day, that's what we're looking for more than anything else.
MICHELLE: I love you using that word ambition. Because it's not long ago that ambition was a dirty word. If you said you were ambitious, people would look at you and go, oh, it's just all about you. But you need that drive, that determination to achieve, to grow, to develop, to just move from here to there. And that doesn't mean that everybody wants to be the CEO, does it, Brian? It's more the fact that they're ambitious about being the best that they possibly can be, and then you push them that little bit more.
BRIAN: Absolutely. Yes.
MICHELLE: Can you tell us a little more about what MIA Hospitality Management actually does? I'll certainly be putting all the links in the show notes, but if you could just share with my audience — you've got a large global audience listening — exactly what do you do and what do you offer?
BRIAN: So we offer a wide range of services. My partner Robert Finvarb is a real estate developer who has developed over 20 hotels across the US over the last two decades. Developing and bringing projects to life from a vision is something we're really good at.
We offer a service for owners and developers who are looking to bring a new concept to life — how can they underwrite the development, how can they establish who their competitive landscape is, and then partner with them to provide services where we can work with their architects, interior designers, and construction project management team to programme the building operationally. So that what's being put on paper and ends up becoming an actuality in real life makes sense operationally.
Because once the project gets going with construction, rarely is there ever a moment where you go back and fix things. Having a manager engaged very early in the process can take a lot of risk off the developer and owner's plate in terms of making mistakes where operational expertise is not available and doesn't translate into the design. So we offer pre-opening services for those clients.
And then once the hotel is up and running, we offer the full gamut: revenue management with best-in-class tools and resources, sales management, demand generation, digital marketing services, and accounting — which is a critical piece to the overall operation. Most hotel deals that end up not performing do so in two disciplines: revenue management and finance and accounting. If those two are not operating in the best possible capacity at all times, it becomes extremely impactful to the bottom line of the hotel. Those two disciplines are something we pride ourselves on very much.
Then obviously operations — rooms, food and beverage, maintenance, preventative maintenance, capital expenditure management, making sure assets are well maintained and preserved, meeting guest expectations and reducing the owner's liability in terms of having to reinvest earlier than anticipated.
And tying it all together, it's not a one-size-fits-all approach. What's different about us from other management companies is that because we're small we're able to be nimble and implement strategies for each hotel that are specific to that hotel. We can focus all of our team members to execute all of those disciplines in the best interest of that specific hotel, not just the portfolio. Being able to drill down and execute in that kind of a manner is something I know owners are looking for. The landscape is more competitive than it's ever been, with new brands emerging almost daily. The best way we can deliver results for owners, guests, and our associates is to always do what's in the best interest of each specific hotel.
MICHELLE: Thank you for that explanation. After looking at your website and seeing those four pillars, you don't just do one thing. You do such a broad range, from the moment you look at the plans before the dirt is turned over, right through to that amazing guest experience.
I smile when you talked about the plans. I'm sure you and I have both been into a number of different back-of-house restaurants where the chef walks in and goes, why is that there? It looked really good on paper for the architect but it's totally not the way a chef works around that particular space. We've even had new developments where they've literally walked in and said we've got to flip the whole thing — the restaurant should be on the right side and the bar should be on the left. You think, why wasn't this picked up? But it's not until you have the knowledge — which you and your team clearly do, having walked this journey multiple times — that you know what works.
And I think that's what AI is good at now — you can actually walk around the plans virtually. Because I'm one of those people who needs to see the whole picture. I look at plans and go, that looks nice, but it's not till it's finished that you go, we really should have had that wall there.
That's just one tiny component of your expertise. So thank you so much for sharing that with us, Brian.
Before we finish, given your experience launching award-winning venues and leading branded hotel platforms, what advice would you give to the next generation of hospitality leaders about staying innovative, commercially minded, and guest-focused in a rapidly changing industry?
BRIAN: I would say to the next generation: have an open mindset. Be receptive to change and be receptive to your surroundings. Take in and try to learn as much as you can so that you can understand what's happening in your area and figure out a path to make an impact — to make it innovative, or to improve the guest focus.
More often than not in human nature, we tend to have preconceived notions when we start a role, or about what it might be like in a certain work environment. That ends up creating an artificially low ceiling that may limit someone's potential to try something new and take a risk. My advice is: if you have that open mindset and you're receptive to listening to others and taking a risk on something new that's outside of your comfort zone, you can end up learning something where you can push yourself in a direction you probably didn't think you were capable of. It'll end up growing you as an individual, as a team member, and growing your skill set.
If you're looking to grow in this industry, every one of those experiences where you put yourself out there and try something new, you're growing your skill set. You'll be able to leverage it into something that helps you get into a position you want to work in, where you're happier in your role because you're learning, feeling accomplished, and rewarding yourself in that process.
Take that risk to be open-minded, and it'll end up opening so many more new doors for you in your career. When I started in this business a long time ago, I learned quickly that if I'm open to trying new things and push my boundaries in terms of what I'm willing to do and learn, it'll end up propelling my career more quickly than I initially expected. If this next generation can do the same, they'll be pleasantly surprised by what they can accomplish and how rewarding it could be.
MICHELLE: The opportunities are endless. You've just got to push yourself, because you just don't know where it's going to end up. Over the last eight years I've had the most amazing guests, including yourself, who've said: I started off here, but by just putting forward this idea, or stretching myself, or somebody believing in me — now look where I am. And that is so beautiful. That is something about our industry. We have so many people who come in for their first job, and we show them the steps of connection with people. But that word you used — ambition — you have that, and you don't know where you'll end up in the years to come.
Brian, is there something I haven't asked you that you'd like to share with my audience?
BRIAN: Let me think. In terms of opportunities, I think where the younger generation can help themselves gain a stronger footing is to understand this: there seems to be a desire today that everybody wants to make a living from their phone or from their home, and not be out there socially or in person. I would challenge the younger generation looking to make a great living and have a meaningful career — where you're meeting new people and gaining new experiences, and affording yourself the ability to travel, which is another huge plus of working in the travel industry — if you go counter to the trend and apply yourself and put yourself out there more socially in the workplace, you can end up making an amazing career and more money than you could imagine, with less risk.
This generation is looking at technology as a quick, fast-paced track to making a passive income. But because so many people are flocking in that direction, it's harder and harder to rise above the others and build a great career or earn a wonderful living. Because the pool of people willing to participate in this industry is shrinking, if you run counter to the trend you could end up doing things that are beyond your wildest dreams from a career perspective. Take that opportunity to try something that not everybody is chasing, and you could end up having a wonderful career and lovely lifelong memories in this space.
Those are my parting words and my parting gift to your audience. Get the younger generation inspired to join this industry. I'm extremely grateful for every opportunity, and I know there are still so many rewarding opportunities out there for the next generation. Give it a chance.
MICHELLE: Thank you so much, Brian. The advice you've just given to my listeners — and those perhaps thinking of entering the industry, or presently in it and thinking, I'm going to do that, or try that, or move out of my comfort zone — is so valuable. And I really love that point about wanting to work at home on the phone. There is so much more to life than that. Get outside, go and meet people. The hospitality industry, as you rightly said Brian, will take you all around the world — whether it's shaking a cocktail, serving a plate, cleaning dishes. It doesn't matter where it is. We are a beautiful industry, full of people who want to connect and make those amazing memorable experiences for each and every one of our guests.
Thank you so much, Brian, for sharing your wisdom with us today. I know my audience are going to certainly enjoy this episode.
BRIAN: Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure.
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