How Do You Say No to a Guest Without It Feeling Like No?

TRANSCRIPT: How Do You Say No to a Guest Without It Feeling Like No?

The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast

---

Michelle Pascoe: Well, hello everybody, and welcome to this week's podcast. Oh my goodness, I've just been chatting off camera with this amazing lady, and you're going to love her vibrant energy. That's what we need here in the Southern Hemisphere. It is now spring and it is gorgeous, and she has certainly set the scene for that.

So let me introduce my guest for today. Imagine creating loyal customers, a more empowered team and stronger sales by changing the way you respond. Christine Trippi helps leaders turn everyday no's into yes, creating better experiences, stronger relationships and more possibilities for their customers, their teams and their sales. An award-winning hotel leader, keynote speaker, TEDx speaker and the author of Yes Is the Answer, Christine has spent more than 37 years in hospitality. She was honoured as General Manager of the Year with Marriott International and named one of the 100 most influential hospitality leaders. Her mission is simple: changing the world one yes at a time.

Welcome, Christine. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's great to have you here.

Christine Trippi: Thank you, Michelle. I'm so happy to be here. It's already Friday for you guys, so let's really bring up the energy.

Michelle Pascoe: And I can tell you, Friday is a beautiful day here.

Christine Trippi: It is here too.

Michelle Pascoe: So tell me, Christine, and my listeners, whereabouts are you sitting at the moment in the big wide world of things?

Christine Trippi: Well, I'm at the home headquarters of The Wise Pineapple, and that is just a little bit west of Chicago, Illinois. I'm in the suburbs, but it's beautiful.

Michelle Pascoe: I was just sharing with Christine, listeners, that for seven years straight, a number of club managers, boards of directors and other consultants and I have been taken on food tours by the beautiful Toni Clarke. That includes the National Restaurant Association show, a massive trade show in Chicago every year, and then we've always tinkered off to various parts of America. Toni has always organised these beautiful restaurants, and our very first year was to New York. We actually went back of house at the Marriott Times Square, which I've stayed at a few times, because I have been a very loyal member of Marriott for many years.

I've got a number of questions for Christine, but the customer service there, and as you know, listeners, that's been my passion for 33 years, and how it was delivered down to the finest details, is what made the difference.

So welcome, Christine. It is so great to have you here. Let's start with this first question. You were named GM of the Year with Marriott and one of the 100 most influential hospitality leaders. That is huge. What was happening on the floor of your hotel, day to day, that built the case for yes as a leadership philosophy rather than just a nice idea?

Christine Trippi: I love this question, and I'm already trying to drill down into a simple answer. I don't want to get too verbose. But if I were to break it down, first and foremost, it's creating the vision.

When I came into this hotel as the new general manager, it already happened to be in the red zone. If you know anything about Marriott, we have our zones: red, yellow, clear and green. This hotel was struggling with guest experience. So the first thing I do when I come into a property is set the vision. Give everyone a vision for the future, where we can go. Then I want to know what their vision is. What is a high-performing team? What is a high-performing workplace that you want to be a part of? So now we're in the same place, we're in this together and we are casting a vision, rather than just showing up every day to get through the day and respond to the day. Now we've got a goal, because how do you win if you don't know the goal?

Michelle Pascoe: So very true. How do you win?

Christine Trippi: Then the next step is living it every day. I know many people will get on board and hear about the vision and the culture at onboarding, and then that's where it ends. Aside from talking about yes, my second favourite topic to talk about is huddle. Now, I don't know if it's the same terminology there in Australia. Do you call your morning stand-up a huddle?

Michelle Pascoe: Yes, you can call it that. We know what it is. We have all different names for it too.

Christine Trippi: But truly, when you say let's increase our scores or let's increase our revenue, that's how that happens: the day-to-day living it through huddle. So I set the vision and I lead the culture with huddle every day.

And I taught them how. I've been in this industry now for four decades, and for decades we have told people, "Yes is the answer, what is the question?" But the thing we left out was the how. It's really sweet for a leader to stand up there and say, "Yes is the answer, what is the question?" but not explain how you say yes when someone asks you for a smoking room, or when someone says, "Can you waive my cancellation fee?" We're putting our frontline people on the hot seat, and we haven't taught them how to say yes to those hard questions. So I taught them how, and then through huddle we practise and we build the muscle.

The last thing I'll say on this one is I went first. Before I started there, I had opened up a water park resort called Key Lime Cove Water Resort, and it was all fun. That's where Tooky's from, right there.

Michelle Pascoe: Oh, very cute.

Christine Trippi: Then when I started over at The Courtyard, which is a business hotel, everybody thought hospitality looked like this. When I started bringing the fun, they were like, "Well, this is a business hotel. This isn't a water park resort." And I love that. I said, "Well, that doesn't mean we can't have fun with our guests, that we can't have energy." It took me going first to show them what that looks like. Often we tell our people to be friendlier, but many people don't understand what that expectation looks like. To me, friendlier looks like this, and to someone else, friendlier might be just checking in. So if we don't go first, they don't know what it looks like.

Michelle Pascoe: Because if you're not going first, they're self-interpreting what you mean by being friendly, aren't they?

Christine Trippi: Absolutely. And here's a really important thing to think about right now. You may or may not agree, but the best service we ever saw was 2019 and before. Are you with me? If we think about it, we have people in our hotels right now, or any of our businesses, who have never even seen what 2019 service looked like. They started after that. It's nobody's fault. We had gone through so much, and we had to figure out just how to get through the day and keep our doors open. But so much of our service became transactions, not the hospitality that we once knew. So those people are modelling the only thing they've seen. "Here's your key. There's the elevator. Breakfast is six to ten." Not "Welcome to the Marriott." Not "Welcome to the casino."

Michelle Pascoe: And it's made a massive dent, hasn't it, in how we connect with our customers and that feeling of belonging, which is what they're looking for. Because our customers have also changed, haven't they? Our members, our guests. They're not as tolerant as they once were. They expect a lot, and you can't blame them. The cost of everything has risen exponentially. They're going out, they're spending their hard-earned money and they're wanting an experience. However, they don't convey it as nicely as perhaps they once did. It becomes quite aggressive or demanding.

And as you rightly said, Christine, you've got these young people, or people of any age, for whom it could be their first time on the front line. Back of house is saying, "We say yes to everything." But what happens when somebody asks them to do something that's against company policy? How do they handle that, when they're going to get shouted at? I'm going to ask you in a moment about this, because sometimes you've got to say no. But how do you do that?

Christine Trippi: I've got all kinds of answers for you. Let's jump to that question. So first of all, if we want to move into the yes, I think it's best to do it with a visual. And remember this: the answer may be no, but the experience doesn't have to feel like no.

There's one more thing I want to go back to really quickly. I've done this hundreds of times: if I ask people in a room to raise their hand if they feel like guests today are different than they were in 2019, everybody raises their hand. But we have to remember that energy is contagious. When the pandemic happened, overnight our service went from "Welcome to the hotel" to "You have to wear a mask. Stand over there." And nobody could understand why our guests were so rude. But it's a reflection of what we were giving out, and we weren't even aware of it. Like I said, it was nobody's fault. We had to get through it.

But when somebody tells me that every single guest is just terrible, I'll say we need to look in the mirror. What is the energy we're putting out? That's something we all need to check every once in a while. Is the energy I'm putting out welcoming? Is it inviting? Or is it rules and transactions?

So let's move on to a hard no. Let me think of a really good one we could do. Let me ask you, do you have a hard no you'd like to use?

Michelle Pascoe: It could well be what you were talking about, having a smoking room in a hotel.

Christine Trippi: That's a fun one, and I talk about that one in the book too. So let's just say, for example, I'm in New Orleans. If any of you know New Orleans, it's a fun party town, and during Mardi Gras it's even funner and partier. So someone calls your hotel and says, "Hey, I'm coming in for Mardi Gras for the first time, and I was hoping I could get a smoking room."

Now, our initial reaction, for nearly everyone out there if we're being honest, is going to be something along the lines of, "No, I'm sorry, unfortunately we don't have smoking rooms," or, "Unfortunately, the law is..." et cetera, et cetera. In the keynote, the workshops and the book, I really dive into why we start with the automatic no, and that's biology.

That is why the very first step in Yes Is the Answer is to pause before answering any question and make friends first. When we pause and connect, and this is biology, it defuses the fight or flight we're experiencing, the fight or flight that brings us right to no, and it taps into the heart. Now that we've made a connection and I'm friends with you, I really want to find that yes for you. This is how you slow yourself down. Because when you automatically start with no, you build a wall. When you make friends first, you build a bridge.

So the first thing is to pause and make friends first. What might that sound like in this case? They told us how to make friends with them. They said this is their first time coming in for Mardi Gras. So I might say, "Thank you for choosing our hotel for your first trip to Mardi Gras." Right now, immediately, everybody's defused. We're leaning in. We're coming together. You feel that with me?

Michelle Pascoe: Definitely.

Christine Trippi: Then step two is tell them what you can do. We waste so much time talking about our rules, our laws and our operational woes. Nobody cares that you're in a sold-out situation. Nobody cares about your laws. They only care about what they want. Before I even spell it out, I'll tell you step three, which is offer options.

Michelle Pascoe: Right. Good.

Christine Trippi: So tell them what you can do and offer options. When you offer options, you put the other person in control. You're never the person dictating to people. You're the person guiding them, finding solutions for them, and they get to choose.

Michelle Pascoe: Yes, because you know what your property can offer, but they don't. You can't just assume. I love this. Go on, it's great.

Christine Trippi: Exactly. They get to decide, and you get to provide solutions, be helpful and provide hospitality. So for example, it might sound like this: "Thank you so much for choosing our hotel for your first trip to Mardi Gras. You are going to love it, and I'm going to give you some great tips." And now I'm making a note that when they come in, I'm going to have their tips ready for them. So now we're creating these golden nuggets and we're getting all this juicy information.

Then tell them what you can do: "Here is a great solution. How about we place you on our first floor? It's right down the way from our outdoor area, where there's a smoking area. Would that work for you?" Most people are going to say, "Yeah, that sounds great. Thanks for respecting my situation and finding a solution."

Now, you might notice that in that instance I didn't offer a second option. What I want to share with everybody out there is that when you're in a moment where you can't think of two options, the way to keep them in control is by saying, "Does that work for you?"

Michelle Pascoe: Love that.

Christine Trippi: And now they still feel in control. I haven't dictated. When we say things like "You can only do this," or when we put people in a corner where they're being dictated to, even if they're not realising it, their body feels it and it creates pushback. "Okay, you're telling me what I have to do." And nobody likes to be told what to do.

So if you can help your front line to always give options, to always put the other person in control within limits, they're going to own and take back their day, love their jobs again and stop feeling like they're getting beaten up. Honestly, if I could give one gift to all service providers, it would be the ability to stand tall, say yes, love your job and change the world. That is the whole reason I wrote the book.

Michelle Pascoe: And it's so true. It's hospitality, as they say. It's about being hospitable. We're there to connect with people. These people have chosen to come to your hotel, your venue, your club, whatever it might be. So how are we greeting them, whether it's over the telephone, through your website or face to face when they come to the counter?

I've always had a joke over the years. You always see these beautiful smiling photos of the team, don't you, Christine? On the website or on the back of a bus. And you think to yourself, "Wow, I can't wait to get there. There are all these lovely happy people." Then you get there and they've got a face like thunder, resting bitch face, and you think to yourself, "Where were you on the day they were taking those photos?" And now they're probably all AI because no staff smile.

That's where you've created this expectation that this is going to be a wonderful experience, to be met by a human. And we need people in hospitality. It's not going to be run by AI. But you've got people who just don't like their job, or if they do, their face isn't showing it.

When you were talking before about that contagious energy, you know yourself, if you go into a shop or a cafe and there are a couple of staff there, you've got the one on the register who's chatty, still processing those orders but having a chat, smiling and connecting. Then somebody else is just going, "Yep. Order." You're going to go, "I'm not going on that line. I'm going over here," because you want that energy, don't you?

Christine Trippi: Exactly, and that's why energy is contagious. You might have a server or a hostess who comes up and says, "Hey, everybody, are we celebrating tonight? Thanks for choosing XYZ Restaurant." Or you have somebody who says, "Four in your party?"

Michelle Pascoe: But it's the face that follows, isn't it?

Christine Trippi: Yes. It's the energy.

I want to go back really quickly to that example. Let's just say I said, "Does that work for you?" I always have a coconut in the audience who says, "Well, Christine, what if they say that doesn't work for me?" I'm glad you asked. If you ever get resistance at this step, I want you to go back to step one, which is make friends first again. Because now that you've got resistance, you're going to feel that anxiety again.

So go back again. It might be, "Oh, thank you so much for letting me know that having a smoking room is your priority." Maybe they said, "No, I'm on vacation, I'm at Mardi Gras, I'm going to be smoking." Then the next thing you can say is the next thing you can do. Maybe it's a $250-a-day charge: "We'll make that a smoking room for $250 a day, or we can place you by the smoking area. Which one works best for you?"

And then if you really get pushback, and I do this kind of jokingly, but ultimately if they say, "No, this is what's important to me," then it's, "Thank you so much for letting me know what's important to you. I want this to be the magical trip you're dreaming of. Let me call around and find a hotel in the area that offers smoking rooms."

If we work in New Orleans, we might get that question a lot, and we might already have the answer ready because we know we get the question. I'll be honest with you, where I was general manager last, we had a venue that brought in stars quite a bit, and many of those stars needed a smoking room. We had a local Ramada that still had smoking rooms, and I knew where I could refer them, because that's not our customer. And they're going to remember that the next time they need my product. That's okay. They're going to remember you for serving their needs.

Michelle Pascoe: I love that, Christine. As you said, you've given them that first option, then you've given the second option of paying the additional fee. But I love that third one. You've realised this is not your customer. As lovely as they are and as much as you'd like to help them, they're not your customer, and there's nothing more you can do. So now you've got some information you can give them: "Ring there, they'll do that for you." To me, that ties it up in a beautiful package, because they may not come to you that time, but they'll definitely tell a lot of people about it.

Christine Trippi: Absolutely. And I'm going to tell you, I've done crazy things like this. I will remember that person. I'll write that person's name down. I'll get more information about that person, and then I'll send them an amenity over at the Ramada and say, "I want you to have the most amazing time," or "Good luck on the show," whatever that might be. That's where you start building bridges that people never forget. It's just so magical. I can't believe I've gotten to do this for 40 years. It's just the most beautiful thing.

Michelle Pascoe: So let's talk about the blockers. They'll be the ones who go, "Oh, if you do it for one, Christine, you'll have to do it for everybody." That's one issue. And then there's, "Oh, you're too excitable." I'm here for a meal, and you come up as the server and go, "Hey, are we celebrating?" I think you and I are on the same energy level, Christine. And some people go, "Oh, here we go." They're the blockers.

I know my audience will be thinking, "Well, I'm the quieter person." And no offence out there, we need the yin and the yang in our world. But how do we work with those people? You're the lovely effervescent server with that contagious energy, and some around the table will go, "Oh, this is wonderful, it's going to be good." But the main person just looks at you and goes, "Yep, we'd just like to order our drinks." How do you handle that?

Christine Trippi: I love this question. Just getting to know me as much as you have already, I'm sure you can tell I probably have that energy. And I'm never going to apologise for bringing hospitality. That is my job and that is what I do. But it is also my job to read the room. It is my job to understand the person in front of me the best that I can. So my immediate energy might be loud or effervescent, and then if I read that it's a quieter person, maybe I'll tone it down a little. And then there are quiet people who really enjoy the yang. They're enjoying that part of it.

So be authentic. Be who you are. That's why I tell people, even though I'm going first and modelling what things look like, you do it in your way. These are the things we're looking for, but do it in your way. Be authentic, and that is okay. Not everyone's energy has to look like mine, and that is okay.

Michelle Pascoe: We're looking at so many generations in the workplace now. This is the first time in history that leaders have four generations, and then if we're looking at Alphas, five. Previously they may have had their own generation and the one after, and that's it. Now they're leading people from different generations, with different values, different beliefs and different morals. How do we get them all on the same page when it comes to customer service? How do you lead a team that is so diversified? Any thoughts? And this is an off-the-cuff question, listeners. I haven't asked Christine any of the questions I'd planned so far. So go for it.

Christine Trippi: And that's okay. Like I said, this is not something where I decided, "Oh, I want to be a speaker, so I'm going to come up with something." I've lived this, in every department, for 40 years. So it's all in there. So wait, the question again was?

Michelle Pascoe: When you've got such a diversified team from different generations, how do you lead them? Because that's where we are now in hospitality. You've got some who come in just for the money, and it doesn't matter what age they are. You've got some who are there as a stopgap. You've got the long-term hospitality people. And you've got some who are great workers but don't know how to hold a conversation with customers, because they don't know how to start it. So how do you lead these people in this revolution, where it's about yes and about creating these amazing experiences?

Christine Trippi: There's so much there that I want to share. But first of all, I'm always going to come back to huddle. You're never going to get it if you're not having your daily huddles. Honestly, it's the most important thing we do every day. I have proven this so many times: there is nothing that will raise every scorecard metric more than huddle will. I can get on my soapbox for hours about that one. But again, it's the everyday consistency, practising, building the muscle for it, teaching them the hows.

Then there's something I talk about, which is purpose. Let me say it this way: combining someone's position with their passion can equal purpose. I'm going to tell you about Jenny really quickly, because I'm a very visual person and I love to give an example.

Jenny was one of our bistro servers at The Courtyard. We had a little bistro inside the hotel, and she was one of our servers. Now, she had a dream of doing professional makeup for theatre and that kind of thing. Being a bistro server, or working in the hotel industry, was not on her radar. It was a job. Then I remember, with Marriott, we were starting the Take Care programme, which is all about healthy living, and we had to find a Take Care champion. At that time, Jenny was on a weight loss journey. I think she had joined Weight Watchers and she was down 25 pounds, and she'd talked about that a bit. So when I realised I had to find a champion on the team, I immediately thought of Jenny. I asked her, "Jenny, would you be interested in being our Take Care champion and sharing healthy ways of life?"

She was so excited. I gave her the link to the website on our intranet, and she came back on Monday morning into my office with a binder like this, full of printouts and ideas. And I went, "Hot damn tamale, Jenny, you should be our property coordinator!" She had all this talent and skill underneath that we had no idea about. Getting to know the passions of your team members is just so incredible. Maybe she never wanted to be a bistro server, and it was just a job, but now she's living a passion she personally has through her job. When you can take someone's position and their passion, you can create purpose. There are so many neat ways to do that, but that's one great example.

Michelle Pascoe: I absolutely love that. I was actually coaching a leadership team only last night, and we were talking about how you've got to keep the Gen Zs particularly engaged. They're not just going to sit there. If you've got an eight-hour shift and they're working in the gaming area or in the bistro by themselves for eight hours, that is long. It is arduous. And they may be people who love working around other people. The CEO turned around and said, "Well, maybe at the start of the shift we set it up so every two hours they move around," because they're all multi-skilled. So they're giving them the opportunity to walk around the venue and do different roles, and it keeps them interested.

But I also mentioned giving them a project, exactly what you're saying with Jenny. The first pushback people gave was, "Oh, well, you'll have to give them more money." I don't think it's about the money. I think it's about, as you said, that passion and that purpose. There are thousands like Jenny, tens of thousands out there in hospitality, who have this talent. They may have done a course, done something in another workplace, something at school or something in their family's business that they can bring to your organisation and that you haven't even thought about yet. It's asking the question: what have they got to give, or what can you give them, that will turn that light on? How do we share that and literally bottle it? My listeners will definitely have to buy your book to learn how to do this. And I know leaders think, "Oh, it's another thing I have to do." Well, it's the most important thing.

Christine Trippi: It is. And here's the thing. Attitudes are contagious. Is yours worth catching? If you think getting to know your team is just another thing you have to do, an inconvenience, then that's the result you're going to get. Because once you start investing in your people, your life gets easier and your time gets freed up, because you've got people who are engaged and who love their job. When you can give people a purpose, they don't show up and go, "Oh, I've got 150 rooms to check in." They show up going, "Whose life do I get to change today?" That's why I wear my starfish every day: changing the world one starfish at a time. If you don't know that story, it's in the book too.

Michelle Pascoe: Oh, I do. I'm a CSP here in Australia with Professional Speakers Australia, and I know exactly what a starfish is. We've had Tim Gard speak many times at our conferences about the starfish story.

Christine Trippi: Does Tim Gard talk about the starfish? I just saw him at our National Speakers Association conference, Influence, this year.

Michelle Pascoe: Did you go last year?

Christine Trippi: Not last year. I just joined this year.

Michelle Pascoe: Oh, perfect. Well, I've been a member for about 25 years plus, my listeners. The National Speakers Association there is Professional Speakers Australia here, but I've always gone back and forth to America.

Christine Trippi: I had no idea. How this all came about for me was the very first time I received a comment card with my name on it, back in 1987. I brought it home to my dad, and the first thing he said to me was, "Baby, there are 25 more people who thought the same thing. They just didn't take the time to write it." And then he told me the starfish story. He said, "You remind me of the starfish story." That's how it happened for me. Literally since 1987, since my dad told me that, my mission has been to change the world one yes at a time.

Michelle Pascoe: That's just beautiful.

Christine Trippi: That's really how it happened for me, organically.

Michelle Pascoe: That's so cool. Let me ask you, and I love this analogy: you ask people whether they're a coconut, a banana or a pineapple. Talk me through that, and why the pineapple is the one you're after. Because there's always a cruel joke about what you can do with a pineapple when people are rude. So I'd love to know why.

Christine Trippi: I love that you brought that up. I've got my mug there: Pineapple, Coconut, Banana. You decide. Let me tell you a little bit about this. As I started speaking, and even before speaking professionally, when I was training and teaching people in hotels, I quickly realised there are always three types of participants in every room.

My first type are my coconuts. You might have a hard head and you might be tough to crack. My coconuts might see all this energy and immediately go, "Oh God, how long is this?" But if we open ourselves up and show up with an open mind and an open heart, imagine how far we can go.

Then there are our bananas. They're the ones who show up and go, "Oh, this is much better than dealing with call-offs. This is much better than dealing with guests yelling at me all day. I love coming to training." My bananas just want to have fun. And if I'm being honest, I probably most resonate with the banana. This is why I'm so good at guest experience, because I look at every interaction, even giving someone a pen, and ask how I can make it an experience. I'm always looking to make things more fun.

And then the pineapple. The pineapple is the person who shows up open-minded, taking every opportunity to learn, grow and become the person and leader they're meant to be.

So those are our three categories. But here's the real ticket: we are all three of these. There are days, believe it or not, that I'm a coconut. "This book's going to be stupid." There are days I'm the pineapple and there are days I'm the banana. But who you show up as most often determines your results in life. That's why I always talk about the coconut, banana or pineapple. You get to decide how you show up every day. You're the CEO of your career and your life. You decide how you show up, and that's the most important and valuable gift we have.

Michelle Pascoe: They make that choice. They own that mood when they come to work. In my second book I talk about the skunk and the puppy dog, and it's the same thing. You have to own your mood. I hate the term "fake it till you make it". Sometimes you come to work and things just haven't gone right at home, or the traffic's horrific, and you come in with a face like thunder and you're just not yourself.

I say to CEOs and managers, check in with them. Just say, "Oh, you're not your bright, happy self today." Have a joke. Do they just need to go outside for five minutes and get it out? "The traffic was shocking," or "The vacuum burst open as I was leaving home and there's dust everywhere." Whatever it is, let them get it out of their system.

It's just like our customers and guests. Sometimes they come into our venues, don't they, Christine, with a whole lot of issues and baggage. When they start talking to the person on the counter, they're literally barking orders. That's where, as you were saying, you make them feel they're coming into a place of belonging and community, and you're making them feel welcome. It takes away that anxiety and settles them down, because sometimes they just need to get it out of their system. And then we give them the reason why they're here. As you said with Mardi Gras, "You're going to have a fantastic time." That's what people want to hear. They don't want to get bogged down in their woes. But staff, in particular, have also got to realise they need to own their mood.

Christine Trippi: And that's why I always tell front desk team members, never put them back on the plane. It's rarely a good story. Get them started fresh with your experience. Yes, they might come in grumpy because they had a cancelled flight or a bad experience at the car rental, but if you start them on their journey with you in a positive light, you can be the person who gets to turn their day around. And how lucky are we that we get to do that?

Michelle Pascoe: You've got that opportunity. Acknowledge it: "Oh, that's shocking about the car rental, but isn't it wonderful that you're here today?" That's where the moment shifts. You've acknowledged it, and now let's move on, because you're here and this is what you've come for, this beautiful hotel.

So my last question is a big one. Tell me about a time when yes changed someone's day, career or life.

Christine Trippi: Oh, I've got so many juicy ones. There's a really good one in the book, and I do a special one in my keynote, so I'm going to save those. I have another one I share quite often, so I'm going to share this one.

This goes back to around 2007. I was Assistant General Manager at a Residence Inn by Marriott hotel, and again, I'm always looking to that banana in me to turn a transaction into an experience. I was in charge of sending out the accounts receivable invoices. Now everything's done electronically, but back then we mailed things by snail mail. That's how old I am. So I thought, nobody likes to receive a bill. How do I make opening up a bill more fun?

We had the internet back then, but quotes weren't as readily available as they are today. So I bought a book filled with positive and interesting quotes, and I made fun little quote cards on Print Shop. Remember Print Shop?

Michelle Pascoe: Oh, yes.

Christine Trippi: So I printed all my fun little quotes, and in every invoice I sent out a little quote card. I just thought it was cute. And sometimes I'd hear from people saying, "We love getting your bills," and I'm like, "Oh, yay!" Who ever says they love getting their bills? So make it fun.

There was one time this lady called. She was one of the admins for one of our top accounts. The quote card was, "To forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover that the prisoner was you." After hearing it back, I thought, boy, that was a heavy quote to send out. But that was one of the quote cards.

She called me and said, "Hey, I have to tell you a story. You know how you send your quote cards? I love them so much. The quote card in the last bill we received just hit me so hard. I hung it on my monitor," or her desk, I'm not sure which, "and I just kept reading it and thinking about it all week long. I have to let you in on something. I haven't talked to my brother in years. If I'm being honest, I don't even know why we're fighting anymore. I kept thinking about this quote, and I just called him. We talked for over an hour. We laughed, we cried, and we're going to see each other this weekend. I just had to tell you it was that quote card that led me to make that call." I'm getting goosebumps right now.

Michelle Pascoe: I have goosebumps everywhere. You don't realise the impact you have, do you?

Christine Trippi: You don't. Even doing the funny little simple things. And this is such a great point right here: every time you say yes, you can change the world, and sometimes that world is your own. Often we have self-doubt. We have imposter syndrome. We think, "People will think I'm stupid," like sending these quote cards in my invoices. But when you do the things you're uncomfortable with, that is when you really take things to the next level. Because if your service doesn't make you feel a little uncomfortable, or a little bit embarrassed, that means you're doing what everybody else is doing.

Michelle Pascoe: So very true.

Christine Trippi: So get uncomfortable. Get embarrassed even, and get out there and do something different, because it might be that yes that changes somebody's world.

Michelle Pascoe: Definitely. As I said, you just don't know the impact at all.

Christine, I know I said that was going to be my last question, but I was thinking about what I mentioned right at the start of this conversation, going back of house at the Marriott at Times Square in New York. If my listeners have ever been there, it's the quintessential place to look at the fireworks and see all the things. Many times when I've stayed there, I've loved looking out my window at about three o'clock in the morning, seeing Times Square totally empty, and then watching it build up during the day.

We've mostly talked about the front of house person: the person at the counter, who's greeting, who's on the telephone, the people guests see. But what I took away from that back of house experience was how key the guest experience is for those working in in-room dining. When we were in the kitchen, they showed us a box. Now, for all our listeners, you know what it's like, no matter where you are in the world. With in-room dining, you order on the phone and they bring it up to your room. It's usually on a tray with one of those old silver cloches. The serviette's damp because it's near the ketchup, there are drinks, and it's just there. And then at the end they say, "Oh, just leave it outside the door." I always hate coming back into a hotel and walking along the corridor past all those empty, smelly trays.

But what the Marriott showed us, and I'm trying to think back now whether it was one of their team who thought of it, because I think it was a very collaborative space around how to create an in-room service experience that makes people go "wow", was the actual black box they packed the food in. I don't know whether this was across all Marriott's or just there. As I said, this was about 2017. Instead of everything just being on the tray, they had these special boxes, and it was the way the box was folded. So instead of pulling off the old stainless steel or plastic top from your plate, on the tray came this beautiful black box. Then there was the opening of it. It had a little sticker at the front you had to peel open, and then there was the napkin, and everything was just placed so beautifully.

But where the pride came from was the people who packed it. It was the chef making it, then the person packing it, and then the person delivering it. You could see their faces, because there we were in the kitchen watching this experience before it was taken up to the room. And you go, wow, there's an opportunity. They may never see that guest face to face, but they've created a chain of events that has made this experience a yes moment.

Christine Trippi: Yes, and beautiful.

Michelle Pascoe: I took that away and thought, a lot of people say, "Oh, we're back of house, we never get to see the guest." They may not see them, but they create those experiences, and they are just as important as the person out the front, aren't they?

Christine Trippi: Just like if you go into your room and pull back the sheets, and they're crisp and clean and done well, you know that's pride. And again, it's about teaching that with your team: the purpose behind it, and putting them in the guest's shoes. This could go into a whole coaching conversation, which we probably don't have time for, but just quickly as an example. How many times has a bed been made with the tag at the top when it should be at the bottom? You all know what I'm talking about.

Now, as a leader I could say, "You did it wrong. The tag goes at the bottom." And then they're like, "God, I work so hard and all they do is criticise." But the first time, I said to Minerva, one of my best housekeepers, "Minerva, if you were spending $300 to sleep in that bed for one night, would you want that tag itching your neck all night?" That was the moment. She went, "Oh my gosh, I never even thought about that." It reminded our team that people spend $300 just to sleep in this bed for one night, and that tag would itch your neck.

When we as leaders just train people like a dog, "It goes at the bottom," instead of explaining the whys, putting them in the guest's shoes and really making them feel it, nothing changes. With Minerva, I never had to tell her again. Never had to tell anybody.

Michelle Pascoe: Because, as you said, you put her in the guest's shoes. Even though she was very good and probably made that bed beautifully, she just hadn't thought about that detail from the guest's perspective.

Christine Trippi: Right. And then thinking about, if you or your family were on your very special vacation, what would you want it to look like? Now we're starting to create a little purpose: "I get to create this great vacation. I get to create this moment of relaxation." When you start painting pictures like that, instead of "Do it this way, that's what the checklist says," you get a whole different result.

Michelle Pascoe: You certainly do. Christine, I've absolutely enjoyed our conversation, and I think we could go on for hours and hours. We'll put all the links to your website and your book in the show notes, but can you share with my listeners how they can contact you, what your services are, and a quick blurb about your book? Because I can see it there in the background behind you, Yes Is the Answer, beside your pineapple teapot. I'd love you to share your information, please.

Christine Trippi: You bet. Again, I'm Christine Trippi with The Wise Pineapple. My website is thewisepineapple.com and the book is on Amazon. I'll also give all of your listeners a little freebie, and if anybody would like a complimentary coaching call, I'd be happy to do that and walk through one of your hard yeses or hard no's and maybe convert it with you. I'll send that information to you so you can put it in your show notes. Happy to do that with anyone.

I'm on all the socials. I just started on TikTok, so if you want to follow me there, that's fun. I've started a new series, What's Your Hard No, where I really deep dive and go through the four steps with your hard no's, so you can follow along for more of that.

And I want to thank you, Michelle, so much for having me, and let you know that I love Australia so much. It's on my bucket list to visit Australia. And I showed you before, and I'm going to show all your listeners: I happen to have a favourite Australian. My little Hugh Jackman!

Michelle Pascoe: For those who aren't on YouTube, Christine's just held up this massive head of Hugh Jackman. And what made me laugh was when you said you find these in your hotel room.

Christine Trippi: Yes, literally. People have uncovered that I love Hugh Jackman, and it's not because I keep it a secret or anything. If you're on YouTube, there's my six-foot-tall Hugh Jackman. But to go that extra mile for me, I'll show up for a keynote at a conference, and all of a sudden I walk into my room and there's Hugh Jackman with some Diet Coke.

Michelle Pascoe: Well, I'll share something very quickly with you. As my listeners know, I live in the Southern Highlands, which is roughly two hours south of Sydney. It's a beautiful regional, semi-country area, and we've got some great places to stay down here, so you'll definitely have to come. About eight weeks ago, my daughter and her husband were at one of our local hotels here called the Pink Pub at Moss Vale. It's a great hotel. They were going to go in, but they couldn't get a table because it was booked out on a Friday night. So they grabbed a hamburger outside, and Cailin, my daughter, and her husband Adam were sitting on a bus stop seat eating it.

Anyway, a group of five people walked past, and Cailin, with a hamburger in her mouth, just stopped dead and looked at this guy. It was Hugh Jackman. She couldn't believe it: "Mum, of all the times, I've got a hamburger in my mouth and it's Hugh Jackman!" She was literally dying. She said to her husband, "Was that Hugh Jackman?" and Adam said, "I think so." And he just turned around and smiled at them both and kept on walking, because he was going into the Pink Pub at Mossy to have a meal with his friends. It just blew her away, and that night all the socials erupted: "Oh my gosh, Hugh Jackman's in town." So sometimes you can see him in just a local pub. When you come, you never know, you may meet him down here.

Christine Trippi: I'm going to be looking for him!

Michelle Pascoe: Thank you so much, Christine, for this fantastic conversation. And please, listeners, reach out. Christine's very generous. Have a look at her book and order it on Amazon, go through her website and take her up on those coaching calls, that quick little call about how to change those hard no's into yeses and create those beautiful experiences. Have a wonderful evening, and another day in Chicago. Take care.

Christine Trippi: Thank you. You as well. Thank you.

---

END TRANSCRIPT