How To Build Future Leaders Without Micromanaging

TRANSCRIPT: How to Build Future Leaders Without Micromanaging

The Michelle Pascoe Hospitality Podcast

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Michelle Pascoe: Welcome everyone to today's podcast. I'm going to thoroughly enjoy this conversation today with this wonderful gentleman that I met a while back while travelling through our beautiful registered club industry here in Australia. As you can see from the backdrop on Tim's screen, that's his new entranceway, which I'm sure he'll get to talk about in a moment. We were just saying the development of registered clubs is so amazing, and not just as a stop-start "well, that looks good", but into the future.

So let me introduce Tim for you. Tim has spent over 40 years in the club industry and considers it a lifelong learning experience. He believes the old adage "what's old is new again" is certainly relevant and valid in hospitality, where there is so much technology available, yet good old-fashioned customer service skills prevail. And I agree with you, Tim, it always will.

He is currently the CEO of Greenbank Services Club, where he leads a brilliant team who understand that the balance between profit and purpose is rewarding, as is the organisation's desire to be fully transparent and a true community hub, where the community is as important to the club as the club is to them. If you go onto the website, they do a lot of work in the community. I was having a look at it not long ago and they've got Smart Pups, so listeners, have a look. They work with a lot of community engagement up there, but Smart Pups is very cute, and if you want to look at puppies, it's just gorgeous.

Tim Wright: We're very fortunate to have had a final cuddle with Lucky, one of our Smart Pups, who's graduating next week. Lucky is an absolutely beautiful Labrador boy. He's just been placed with a nine-year-old boy in Yass, near Canberra, who has significant autism. Lucky's been trained beautifully to look after that young boy, so that'll be life-changing for that family. Which is amazing.

Michelle Pascoe: It is. And it's Australia-wide. It's not just down the road from Greenbank.

And Tim will explain where he's situated in a moment. The team recently won eight awards at the 2026 Clubs Queensland Club of the Year Awards, which is great recognition for their efforts over many years. But for Tim, the best part is that they believe they have much more to deliver. So welcome, Tim, to my podcast. It's wonderful to have you as a guest.

Tim Wright: Thank you, it's great to be here.

Michelle Pascoe: So let's look at 40 years in this industry. When somebody's been in an industry for so long, I always love to know what drew you to hospitality, and what was your very first day like?

Tim Wright: My first hospitality job was New Year's Eve, as a 17-year-old, at the Melbourne Hotel in the cocktail lounge, which was an eye-opener. I'd done a very brief hospitality course while I was still at school, and being thrown into a cocktail bar and a cabaret club, I don't know why I kept going, because that would have been the ultimate reason to look elsewhere and go down a different path.

But I think it relates to family history and the camaraderie of the family's involvement in a golf club at the time. That was my first foray into hospitality. I just loved that environment, loved the way everyone was so friendly towards each other. After that first bar experience, my first job was at Ipswich Golf Club, which was fantastic.

Michelle Pascoe: Oh my goodness. So you've gone from one end of the East Coast to the other. And not only was it a cocktail bar and a cabaret club, it was New Year's Eve, and back then there was no such thing as RSA, so you just kept pouring.

Tim Wright: Exactly.

Michelle Pascoe: And I'm sure you learnt some very good life skills as well as professional skills working there.

Tim Wright: My very first trainer was amazing. Sven was an ex-Commonwealth Games wrestler, so he knew what to do and how to convince other people to do what he wanted them to do. He was a very good trainer, very black and white, and I carried the attributes I learnt from him through into my first job.

My first manager there, Steve McMahon at Ipswich Golf, highlighted that customer approach. Know your customer. Know their name, know what they drink, know what their favourite food is, know their family. And I think that's still true today.

Michelle Pascoe: Oh, certainly. I love that point you've made. It was that trainer, that very first person, giving you the time to show you, instruct you and correct you, but also to congratulate you when you get it right. If you've got the right foundations, it certainly makes a difference.

And when you talk about "what's old is new again", it is so true. It's the simple things. It's common sense, but we don't always use it. Knowing people's names, knowing who they are, what their favourite drink is, or that they've had a family member who's been ill. That connection with the community makes such a difference, and I'm sure that's why you and the team at Greenbank Services Club have won eight awards at the Queensland Club Awards. Now that is big, because Queensland, for my listeners, is a massive state if you look at the map of Australia, and there are a lot of clubs, both regional and up and down the coast.

So what's the gap between where Greenbank is now and where you think it can go?

Tim Wright: Structurally, we've got capacity to expand the building quite well. We are a tenant in our current building, but we're owned by our sub-branch, which is part of our broader membership. So capacity-wise, there's very great potential in our current location. The flexibility of licensing in Queensland will allow additional sites as well, so we could diversify or broaden our reach. But that's not our priority. Our priority is the main club, and we believe we've got significant growth still left in us here.

Michelle Pascoe: Can you tell my listeners exactly where Greenbank Services Club is, please, Tim?

Tim Wright: As you said, Queensland's a very broad state, but on the eastern seaboard of Australia, we sit about 20 minutes south-west of Brisbane in the City of Logan. Logan is a very large city in terms of size. It would be in the top five largest council areas in the state, and it's growing rapidly. Within 15 kilometres of the club, they're forecasting population growth of around an extra 110,000 people in the next 10 years. Hence our desire to be ahead of the curve and provide additional car parking and structural infrastructure that will accommodate those additional people.

Michelle Pascoe: Gosh, that's massive. And we know those population forecasts often blow out as well. But it's about preparing for the future. We see it too often, unfortunately, where people think, "Oh yes, we'll get to it," and then they never prepare, and when they're in it, it's just too late. They're putting out fires, trying to catch up and being reactive. In your case, it's being ahead of the curve.

What were the awards you received this year?

Tim Wright: We're very fortunate to have delivered a beautiful renovation in the last 12 months, so one of the awards was Best Renovation over $5 million. We've just finished a $20 million renovation, and we've got two additional stages yet to come, which is probably worth another $20 to $25 million.

We won Best RSL and Services Club. Probably the least important award was that I won Manager of the Year. I'd much prefer to give the accolades to the team. We were very fortunate to win Young Manager of the Year with one of our young team members, Taylor. She's fantastic. We won Best Boutique Food for our Garden Steak and Seafood Restaurant.

And there were two that really resonated and meant a lot to the team. One was for our community support program, which you touched on with Smart Pups. We're targeting $1 million this year in direct support to our local community. Our community support program has two pillars: our Community Benefit Foundation, and Together We Rise, which is for immediate and responsive support to our local community.

The other one that was very nice to collect was the Safer Gambling Award, on behalf of the Attorney-General in Queensland. With legislation and regulation, not just in Queensland but across Australia with AUSTRAC and Liquor and Gaming, we've got a social licence to operate liquor and gaming. So we need to be very responsive and responsible, make sure we're always operating ethically, and keep our customers and the community at the forefront of every decision that's made. So we're very, very happy.

There were some awards we were finalists in and didn't get that we truly believed we had a better chance in than some of the others. We were finalists in 11 all up and won eight of those, so it could have been a phenomenal evening.

Michelle Pascoe: Well, I think it already was, with 8 out of 11. Come on, guys, you've got to leave something for the rest of the industry in Queensland.

Tim Wright: We do daily team meetings with our staff, and we pat them on the back and praise them for the job they do. But from time to time, public recognition at those award ceremonies is really nice. The team deserves that.

Michelle Pascoe: Oh, look, definitely, Tim. Having that third-party endorsement, where it's not just a tap on the shoulder, means so much to the whole team. It doesn't matter whether it's the person out the back washing dishes who the customer is never going to see, or the person cleaning the toilets, all the way up to your young manager Taylor and yourself. Everybody is an important cog in the wheel, because without one, it just doesn't work, does it?

Tim Wright: Exactly. Our philosophy here is that we won't expect any staff member to do anything that we won't do ourselves. It always starts at the bottom, and we truly recognise the staff who do the one percenters. It really makes a difference.

Michelle Pascoe: It does. Can you touch on something there for a moment? We're talking about leadership and community today, and you mentioned these daily catch-up meetings. That's something I've always really tried to impress on people. It doesn't matter how short it is, it's just that moment. Can you explain a little more about how that looks?

Tim Wright: Communication with a big team is always difficult. We've got 200 staff here at the club, and trying to get everybody in the same room at the same time is impossible. So we committed to a little project we call our 9:20 Team Time. I'm very glad to say we're probably 18 months down the track from when we started, and we haven't missed a day yet.

It's compulsory. We have a staff Facebook page as well, so we live stream the meetings every day. It doesn't matter if someone's finished work at 4 or 4:30 in the morning and they're having a sleep, they can have a look when they wake up. It's not essential that they're online at the time.

The 9:20 Team Time covers the activities for the day, praises the staff for the positive things from the day before, and outlines our focus areas. Every day, we feature one of the letters of our cultural program, which we call our FOCUS program. Whether it's the F, the O, the C, the U or the S, that's what we're focusing on today, such as solve the problem, unique experiences, or commitment to each other. They're the key attributes of our FOCUS program.

Michelle Pascoe: Gosh. And that runs for what, 10 minutes before the doors open

Tim Wright: Eight minutes, probably a maximum of 10. Sometimes it's only five. And sometimes there's a comedic part to it as well, a funny story, or we celebrate staff birthdays and milestones. But we do talk about the serious things too, what's in store for the day and what's important.

Michelle Pascoe: So what do you feel about the commitment from the team over those 18 months? Because let's be honest, at the start people were probably going, "Oh, really? What's this? How long is this going to last?" And what do you think the benefits have been, not only for the club, but for the team in getting together?

Tim Wright: I think the biggest thing is awareness and understanding of what our expectations are. If we keep very clear expectations, the staff relish that environment. They know where the boundaries are.

Quite often these days, managers just expect staff to know what to do. They're not given any boundaries. They're either micromanaged or not supervised accordingly, and staff will do what they want to do. So our focus is on very clear communication and very clear guidelines and standards.

A number of years ago, we embraced the staff to create those standards, and it becomes very easy for staff to uphold the standards when they're the ones who developed them. What happens then is that if somebody goes astray, the team will normally bring that person back in line. Or they're obviously not a fit for the culture and the team, and there's another valuable workplace for them somewhere else. In a customer service-centric environment, we want to make sure everyone's rowing in the same direction.

Those team times are phenomenal for providing all the information staff need every day. It doesn't matter whether they come in an hour later, two hours later or just before their shift, they've got access to all that information every day, which is very convenient.

Michelle Pascoe: I love it being in person, and I assume it's yourself or one of the other managers on the day who takes that meeting. But with the live streaming on Facebook, they can go back, so there's none of this "Oh well, I didn't know about it, I didn't see it." It's there. And it's getting them to be accountable for their actions as well, so I absolutely love that. Thank you so much for sharing it, Tim, because I'm sure my listeners will be thinking, no matter what business they're in, "Gee, we could do this."

I've seen other clubs do it. In our reporting program, we provide a Superior Customer Service Award, and some clubs, if that team member is there, will do the call-out in the morning. But it's usually for specific things like that recognition, or when something hasn't gone right. Doing it every morning and having that commitment is different. And when we're looking at the future of leadership, it shows those who are there that the leadership team is committed to the frontline, doesn't it?

Tim Wright: Exactly, yes. And we're very hands-on too. The staff see us picking up plates, washing dishes and cleaning toilets. It's very hard for them not to do it, I suppose, if we're standing beside them doing it.

Michelle Pascoe: Very true. So when it comes to future leaders, and you mentioned Taylor, who won the award, what's that old-fashioned approach you would never trade for a new system or piece of technology, the kind we all hear about now with AI?

Tim Wright: That's it. I think we could all fall into the trap of relying on tools and technology to solve problems. But the way we look at them here is that they're tools to make your life easier and do other things better. So we use technology to give us more time to focus on the good old-fashioned attributes, like customer service.

There's a big focus in Australia at the moment on AUSTRAC, and I know in America it's very similar with FinCEN. With the global environment being very volatile at the moment, what better way to have a safe environment than to know who's in the building and know your customer very well? So I think that's the number one thing I wouldn't trade: that personal service.

I think registered and licensed clubs provide that beautifully. They have that empathy. They know their customer. If we haven't seen one of our elderly members for a few days, someone will pick up the phone and make sure they're okay. Even to the point where, if we can't get them on the phone, someone will pop in the car and go and make sure they're okay.

And coming through Covid back in 2020, that was reinforced, because when we reopened the doors, the members didn't care about the building. They just wanted to make sure the staff were okay, because the staff were the ones who kept in touch with the members all the way through.

Michelle Pascoe: And it made such a difference. I know when I came up to the club and we met, you mentioned that to me. It certainly made a difference to the members, but it also made a difference to the staff, because they had their connection with those people who came in, perhaps every day, just for a cup of tea and a chat, or to play bingo, or just to sit there and relax.

Greenbank talks about balancing profit and purpose and being a true community hub. How does that show up in the way you identify and develop your next generation of managers, not just in the way you serve your members?

Tim Wright: We look at the broader community and we look at opportunities. We've got 70,000 members here at the club, and with our expectations of future growth, we believe we can get to 100,000 members. But what we need to make that happen is broader community engagement.

Clubs have been very good supporters of community over a long period of time, but long gone are the days when it's just writing a cheque and passing it over. There's got to be a 360-degree review to make sure the money that's been donated, because it is a community asset, is being used for the right purpose, and that there's also a benefit coming back to the club for providing that support.

Joel, one of our fantastic senior managers, has just transitioned his role into community commercial manager. His responsibility now isn't just the high-level buying agreements and contracts, but also making sure community engagement is very high, that our brand resonates in the industry and the local community, that the community understands what we do and how we support it, and that we seek support in return.

Michelle Pascoe: I think it's so important, Tim. As you rightly said, in years gone by it was writing the cheque, which was important, but there was no acknowledgement. Even within the team, perhaps they didn't know who they were supporting, and the community wasn't aware of who that club was supporting either.

Now that clubs have changed things, as you have, the community is more engaged and really realising, "Oh, this is what clubs actually do." Without clubs, there wouldn't be Johnny's football team jerseys, or the wing at the new hospital, or all these other things. It gives people that moment to go, "Oh, that's what they do." And I think it also gives so much pride to the people in our teams, in our clubs.

Tim Wright: It does, yeah.

Michelle Pascoe: You feel that.

Tim Wright: Yes. Our brand is very important to us, and we make sure that anything we do, inside the four walls and outside the four walls, follows our charter and our objects. We've got some fantastic community programs, and it all culminates in one major presentation afternoon each year. Along with the visits from Smart Pups and the engagement through the year, a lot of members see that activity and understand the money that's going to very worthy community groups and organisations. It does resonate, and I think that builds their support.

One in particular that we've launched in the last couple of years is a school bursary program. We've got a couple of very large public schools in our local area with a very diverse socioeconomic environment. We provide $50,000 in school bursaries for academic excellence, but most importantly, the other awards are for resilience. Some of the stories of where these kids are coming from and what they've been through are remarkable. To see them come from having nothing, 12- and 13-year-old kids raising their siblings on their own, to being accepted into a NASA program for significant technology roles in the future, is just incredible. For us to go through that journey and see that we're providing support and giving them an opportunity to end up in those sorts of roles makes us very proud.

Michelle Pascoe: Oh gosh, I'm just getting goosebumps thinking about that, Tim. We don't know how hard it is for the person who may be standing right beside us, even though they may have a beautiful smile. We can judge people very quickly, can't we, especially the ones who are quieter. And we know that, for a child and even for adults, education makes such an impact, not just on that individual, but on their family and the broader community. How proud that child must be, and those around them who support them. And knowing that strangers have helped them, who are no longer strangers but part of their journey, is absolutely beautiful, isn't it?

Tim Wright: Exactly. And at the celebrations that afternoon, the members are just blown away by some of these kids. The accolades are fantastic.

Michelle Pascoe: So it's heartwarming for both sides.

Tim Wright: It is.

Michelle Pascoe: And for those who receive this support.

Tim Wright: Exactly.

Michelle Pascoe: Forty years in, what's the moment you saw the potential in someone? You've talked about young students at school, but I mean potential in your team, and to me, that is key to being a leader and a manager. You've got over 200 staff, and there are probably thousands you've worked with over the last 40 years. I always feel that people don't always see the potential in themselves. It takes somebody else to see it. Is there an example where you saw it in someone and then ignited that potential, Tim?

Tim Wright: Without naming names, because there are a couple of staff who would come into this bracket, I think in hospitality these days, recruiting on personality and behaviour rather than skill is very strong. Getting the right person for a customer-centric environment is very important. But everyone brings their own attributes and their own skill sets.

The one thing I've learnt, and it's really resonated across our whole executive team, which is a very small team, is how they've grown and progressed through clear guidelines and expectations, but not micromanaging. In some of my previous roles, there's been quite a lot of micromanagement in certain areas. Just taking the shackles off some of these people and saying, "Right, these are your guidelines, these are your boundaries on where you can and can't go. Knock yourself out and do something very exciting in that middle part." To see the guys blossom and bloom in that space, by having that flexibility, autonomy and trust.

I think trust is a big thing. We trust people to do a job. You give them a fair bit of rope, and sometimes you just have to give it a bit of a pull and bring them back into line a little bit. But I think you get a much better result and much better engagement with your team by trusting, empowering, and making sure they know what the expectations are, and then working together to get there.

Michelle Pascoe: That word trust is so key, isn't it? I know sometimes managers are hesitant to delegate because they think, "Oh, they're going to muck it up. They're not going to do it the way I want." The thousand and one excuses, I've heard them all. But if you don't delegate, and you don't allow people to make a mistake, learn from it and grow, then there is no trust.

So from what you're saying, that trust component is so important for both sides. For the manager, it frees up their headspace so they can do more. And the frontline person, or even the middle manager, can learn something and grow into a position like yours. There you were on that first day, 40 years ago, shaking cocktails, to now being a general manager who believes in his team.

Tim Wright: And trust me, those cocktails probably weren't that impressive back then. But I think it's very exciting to see how we can use our senior people now to become the next leaders. And the more we grow, the more they'll be able to delegate and grow their skill set and experience along the way, which is fantastic.

Michelle Pascoe: So for a general manager or club leader listening this morning who has good people but no real succession plan, what's the first shift you'd tell them to make this month?

Tim Wright: I think it's getting together as a group and agreeing on the standards and expectations of what you as a group want to deliver. Then draw a line in the sand and say, "That's what we're going to do. We can't deviate. This is what we said we're going to do, and we need to deliver it." And if that means you need to bring other people into the team to help you achieve those goals, well and good.

Unfortunately, sometimes you've got very talented people who just don't fit that structure, and they're more valuable in another environment doing something a little bit different. We help staff like that as well. We had one only yesterday, a very talented young fella who we believe, with a bit of focus and redirection, can do a lot better elsewhere, and we'll find him somewhere to go.

That's not just for our reputation. We want to be an employer of choice, and we want to make sure we don't kick staff to the kerb. They're part of our family, and if they work well, there's a very broad future for them in hospitality these days. It's no longer just pouring drinks and serving food. It's a very diverse business. We look after our staff as we look after our members, and I think it's that empathy that really resonates with a community organisation.

Michelle Pascoe: Yes, look, certainly, Tim. Even that example you just gave us. Some organisations will say, "Look, you're not the right fit," and off they go. But helping them see that they're a good person who's just not the right fit for that particular role, and that there's something else for them, gives them encouragement, no matter what age or generation they are. It's wonderful to do.

Tim Wright: I'm very proud as well that, I'm not saying never, but very rarely has there been a difficult separation with staff. It's always very harmonious. There's always a positive outcome.

Michelle Pascoe: Which is good, because we're a very small industry, but we're also a very small community, and it's about helping each other and being there for each other.

Tim, I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation today, and we're now at the end. I'll certainly put the link to Greenbank Services Club in our show notes, so if you live in the local area, interstate or even overseas, remember it's only 20-odd minutes from Brisbane Airport and not far from the Gold Coast. It's the place to go. Is there something I haven't asked you that you'd like to share before we finish today?

Tim Wright: I think the biggest thing, which you touched on a little with profit and purpose, is that deep down there's a benefit in responsibility. Like I said before, we've got a social licence, and we're very fortunate to operate in the liquor and gaming spaces. If you've got very good behavioural expectations and care, and we've got a beautiful customer care program here for our members, that matters.

There's a statement from one of our gaming trainers, who has lived experience and works with gambling help services up here in Queensland: problem gamblers are bad for business. And we extend that through to people who are having difficulty or have unhealthy relationships with alcohol. We think it's our responsibility to make sure people are okay. With that responsibility, there are benefits. If we're seen to be looking after people and going beyond our means to make sure they're okay, the flow-on effect to the business is positive. So dealing with those difficult customers, or people you have concerns about, is not bad for your bottom line.

Michelle Pascoe: Definitely, and well said, because once again, it's that whole community. It's for your members and guests, your broader community, and your team as well. Thank you so much, Tim, for the opportunity to interview you on my podcast. I really enjoyed it. Take care, and I look forward to swinging by and seeing the renovations as they're completed.

Tim Wright: Thank you very much for the opportunity.

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